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Author Topic: ATSC 3.0  (Read 15452 times)
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Titanium
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« Reply #45 on: June 04, 2019, 02:07:57 PM »

Interesting when the leading North American trade magazine for the broadcasting industry presents an opinion on selecting a subpar format and heading down the wrong rabbit hole... again. Not as much worldwide support for ATSC 3.0 as the hype would lead us to believe...

Code:
www.tvtechnology.com/opinions/how-dvb-t2-and-atsc-3-0-stack-up-technical-benefits-limitations-and-real-world-deployments
« Last Edit: June 04, 2019, 02:14:13 PM by Titanium » Logged

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elbandido
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« Reply #46 on: June 04, 2019, 10:11:57 PM »

DVB-T/T2 IS what the U.S. should have gone to instead of ATSC 1.0.

Quote
ATSC 3.0 and DVB-T2 are both state-of-the-art digital television systems with advanced features like interactivity. The main technical differences lie in the transport mechanisms (IP for ATSC 3.0 vs. MPEG2-TS for DVB-T2) and content protection schemes (MPEG-CENC for ATSC 3.0 and CA/Simulcrypt/Multicrypt for DVB-T2) used. Ultimately, DVB-T2 has successfully been deployed by multiple countries across Europe, serving a combined population of more than 3.5 billion

A lot of places recently made the transition from DVB-T to DVB-T2, and they will not be interested in making another transition anytime soon. It is hard for me to see ATSC 3.0 becoming a worldwide standard in the near future, especially with many services transitioning to the Internet.

T-Mobile purchased a lot of licenses in the last auction, and has covered the cost of some tv stations moving so they could access the frequencies they paid for. This shows how desperate, and how hungry they are for frequency spectrum.
There is probably more demand for the rest of the tv spectrum than most realize. Switzerland is set to end all OTA terrestrial broadcasts this year. Other countries countries in Europe may do the same soon.

OTA terrestrial television is at least 70 year old technology in the United States. Some advancements have been made over the years, such as improvements in picture quality, and audio quality. ATSC 3.0 is part OTA, and part internet. Would be easy to see the United States dumping OTA terrestrial service in the next 10-20 years because the tv frequency spectrum could be used more efficiently for other things.  ATSC 3.0 could be the first step in this direction because part of it has to run on the internet.

There was an article I saw on a pay site about 3 LPTV stations that already transitioned to ATSC 3.0.  These three LPTV stations had a transmitter power of around 130 watts, with an ERP of around 1.5 KW.  If this is True, these 3 stations transitioned to ATSC 3.0 with no OTA audience because very few 3.0 tuners exist.  The internet would be the only way to view these channels right now for most people. I am looking for more information about these three stations, and also wonder if the information I have seen is correct? If True, the only thing that makes sense to me is they are holding the frequencies in hopes of getting money for them later.

ATSC 3.0 Does Not want you to record shows and fast forward through the commercials!
I have also seen where provisions are being made make it impossible to record ATSC 3.0 programs, then fast forward or skip the commercials. It will be interesting to see how this feature plays out, and how well it is received by the general public!
« Last Edit: June 04, 2019, 10:15:22 PM by elbandido » Logged
elbandido
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« Reply #47 on: June 05, 2019, 07:40:50 PM »

At least one station in Atlanta will acknowledge or admit they will transition to ATSC 3.0:
Quote
WSB-TV Talk2Us (CMG-Atlanta) <talk2us@wsbtv.com>   
2:55 PM (4 hours ago)

Thank you for being a viewer.  Not this year, but hopefully within the next 2 years.  In September of this year, we are required to move channels.  Currently, we broadcast on UHF channel 39 and on September 6 we will be moving to UHF channel 32.

WSB-TVis a high power station. Probably safe to assume most if not all high power stations in Atlanta will also transition if possible. So the question is what channels or services will I lose? High power stations are required to dual illuminate, which most likely means I will get WSB-TV twice while losing a different station or service.

Attached is a terrestrial scan in .xml format that has 90 services. Atlanta is not the biggest terrestrial market, but it does have a respectable amount of terrestrial services. About the only duplicate services that I have right now are PBS/PBS KIds.  Once WSB-TV transitions, I will have WSB-TV twice, and will most likely lose a yet to be announced service somewhere else. More stations transitioning will likely mean more duplicates and more services lost...

There is some light at the end of the tunnel. Current rules say dual illumination can end sometime in 2023. Some stations will probably wait that long to make the ATSC 3.0 transition.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2019, 07:46:46 PM by elbandido » Logged
elbandido
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« Reply #48 on: June 06, 2019, 08:09:21 PM »

Here is some information taken from the attached transition manuals:

Stations should note that the FCC’s repack reimbursement rules only allow funds for like-for-like expenses.
Thus, adding V-pol or the field conversion capability may not be covered by the repack reimbursement program, but stations should consider supplementing the reimbursement amount to make the purchase at the time of repack, to avoid much greater expense in the future.

The following equipment changes will need to be made when implementing the ATSC 3.0
platform:

* ATSC 3.0 specifies HEVC/H.265 video compression, which is two generations ahead of MPEG-2, the ATSC 1.0 codec. New encoders, which include IP encapsulation, will be required.

* Data server systems with software modules supporting service signaling, service management, program and service guide information, and emergency alerting management will be required.

* The new system requires the addition of gateways, where final signals are managed and assembled before they’re sent via the Studio to Transmitter Link (STL) to the transmitter.

* Replacement of Studio to Transmitter links with IP-based systems is likely.

* Exciter/modulator replacement with an ATSC 3.0-capable unit is likely, assuming that the current exciter is not software-upgradable.

* Assessment of the usefulness of current transmitters when adopting ATSC 3.0, which employs a different modulation standard (OFDM) than the current system. Implications to consider include maximizing transmitter power output vs. replicating the coverage area and adding Vpol to the antenna to improve mobile reception.

* Because peak power is higher for an ATSC 3.0 system than it is for ATSC 1.0 transmissions, broadcasters will need to carefully assess their antenna systems’ needs, assuming that the antenna was not replaced during repack with one that supports the ATSC 3.0 requirements.

There is more involved in a trabsition than the average person realizes.
A short list of ATSC 3.0 transistion considerations could be:
(1)Encoding
(2)MPEG-DASH Packager
(3)Signaling/Guide Manager and ROUTE Encoder
(4)Gateway, System Scheduler & Manager
(5)Studio to Transmitter Link
(6)Exciter
(7)Transmitter
(8)RF System: Filters, Combiners and Transmission Line
(9)Add vertical polarization (This could require additional transmission line and antenna)
(10)ATSC 3.0 specifies HEVC/H.265 video compression, which may require replacement of various studio equipment, and replacement of mobile news gathering equipment.
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elbandido
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« Reply #49 on: June 13, 2019, 10:16:09 PM »

A member of the Hauppauge Sales Team says they are actively working on ATSC 3.0, and hope to be shipping the finished ATSC 3.0 product by the end of 2019. I have several Hauppauge ATSC 1.0 usb tuners. These tuners work very well with FTA enigma2 receivers. A new Hauppauge 955Q usb tuner for ATSC 1.0 may cost around $80.00 U.S. It will be interesting to see how much money a Hauppauge ATSC 3.0 tuner sells for.
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« Reply #50 on: June 16, 2019, 08:58:41 AM »

With $7.3M appropriation, work to upgrade public television transmitters underway

    By Phil Kabler Staff writer Jun 12, 2019

With a $7.36 million supplemental appropriation in the bank, work is underway to upgrade West Virginia Public Broadcasting television transmitters to comply with FCC-mandated channel changes and to move to the next generation of high-definition digital television.

“The money is great, but now we’ve got to get this done,” WVPB executive director Chuck Roberts told the state Educational Broadcasting Authority Wednesday.

Roberts said work is underway in Morgantown to install a new transmitter to move WNPB-TV from channel 24 to channel 34, as part of the FCC’s “spectrum repacking” to free up more broadcast spectrum for wireless broadband.

He said that change should be completed by the end of July, while installation of a cutting-edge ATSC 3.0 antenna should be completed by February.

Roberts said requests for bids for transmitters and antennas are being prepared for WVPB-TV, in Charleston-Huntington, and WSWP-TV, in Beckley, but noted that the supplemental appropriation approved by the Legislature in March will not fully cover the costs of the upgrades.

“That $7.3 million is great, but it doesn’t cover the complete cost of the project,” he said, noting that the Governor’s Office advised him to request the remaining $2.2 million needed to complete the work during the 2020 regular legislative session.

With spectrum repacking, nearly 1,000 commercial and public broadcasting TV stations will need to change their over-the-air channel frequencies or be forced to go off the air.

While not mandated by the FCC, the ATSC 3.0 upgrades will provide superior audio and video quality, a significantly larger number of subchannels, and perhaps most importantly, will allow WVPB broadcasts to be viewed on devices with wireless internet receivers, including computers, tablets and cellphones.

The technology will also allow the state to set up a statewide emergency services network on one of the subchannels. Roberts said he will be meeting with West Virginia National Guard Adjutant General James Hoyer later this week to go over those plans.

Also Wednesday, Roberts announced that the WVPB-produced documentary, “In Tune: A Community of Musicians,” will air statewide on Sept. 14, a day before the national premiere of the new Ken Burns documentary series, “Country Music.”

“It’s a great chance to tie in what West Virginia Public Broadcasting does with the national program,” Roberts said.

The documentary, which looks at the importance of music in rural West Virginia communities, was produced by Russ Barbour, who is retiring this month after a nearly 40-year career with public broadcasting.

Reach Phil Kabler at

philk@wvgazettemail.com,

304-348-1220 or follow

@PhilKabler on Twitter.
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jess73
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« Reply #51 on: June 16, 2019, 10:30:01 PM »

3.0 is interesting; Last year there was testing in different parts of the country. Ota stations in the bay aera, sacramento, and the L.A area were on my Linkbox 9000i[iptv]. I guess this was 3.0 to test.  Those are gone.  I live here in Fresno, Ca. and most have moved to the new 3.0, but they still transmit a 1.0 also. Those that are transmitting only 3.0 show a signle, but with my 1.0 receiver it only shows a signle[no video or audio]., and with no 3.0 tuners available, they are transmitting into a dead zone.  Until there are 3.0 tuners available, I don't think I will worry about it. After all I'll be 81 the first part of next month!  Jess out in Fresno, California
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« Reply #52 on: June 25, 2019, 12:02:38 PM »

Looks like it might be a while if you are looking for  a cheap atsc 3.0 usb tuner. Here is a reply about the one shown in the link below.

Code:
http://www.lowasis.com/portfolio-items/lda-1000/

Quote
I can get you an official quote later but here is a ballpark pricing that we have been quoting.

 

For Windows, LDA 1200 = $995 / unit ( It comes with a simple player(channel tuning/change/volume control etc) SW that runs on Windows. Not receiving multiple PLPs for now. No technical support )

 

For Linux, since the USB dongle receiver LDA 1200 has a player SW for Windows only, SDK is needed for Linux operation. SDK  = $10,000 (Originally $13,000. limited technical support via email or call is available. Receiving multiple PLPs) 

To date, I have found 2 different atsc 3.0 tuners that are priced close to One Thousand Dollars each.
My search for a reasonably priced atsc 3.0 usb tuner will continue.
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Jimlw1
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« Reply #53 on: June 27, 2019, 01:33:27 AM »

You can stop looking for ATSC 3.0 for me - price cuts it completely from my budget - plus I see no need for it for the rest of my limited lifetime...

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elbandido
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« Reply #54 on: June 27, 2019, 10:55:43 AM »

Different people will have varying levels and sources of income.
No one knows the exact date they will leave this planet.
With these points in mind, information about equipment and its pricing is not directed at any one person.
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digitaldan
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« Reply #55 on: June 28, 2019, 08:41:38 AM »

More news about test results for the new system...

Code:
https://hdguru.com/atsc-3-0-test-for-hdr-deemed-immense-success/

And more news...

Code:
https://www.tvtechnology.com/atsc3/atsc-3-0-best-of-the-best-for-broadcastings-future

Now this news article is older, but we will hear what the decision is sometime in July. Or at least that is what is referred to as the time so far.

Code:
https://www.atsc.org/newsletter/going-global-usa-proposes-atsc-3-0-as-international-digital-broadcast-standard/

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Jeff S.
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« Reply #56 on: July 08, 2019, 11:33:51 AM »

I just wanted to warn everyone on the ATSC 3.0 audio side. While El mentioned this is all voluntary, the audio is the same issue. The new audio format from Dolby is AC4. I think we posted some articles on this, but understand that there is no AC4 in the units out today. That is because Dolby is only allowing LG and Samsung to have this at the beginning of this deployment. That just shows you the corruption and lack of knowledge from Congress!

The other side of this equation, if the broadcaster is using AC4 (not all broadcaster will be), then you will need a box/TV with AC4 in them for any for the multi-path audio or 5.1 systems. Since ATSC 3.0 is still a DVB standard, there still is a stereo carrier in the file path so AC3 should still provide and audio output. Understand Dolby AC3 is a SW based system and AC4 requires a chip to run. There are additional features in AC4, one being the consistent audio output. So from the program to commercial, the audio levels should be the same. Unlike the AVL (automatic volume level) that was supposed to be implemented 3 years ago. It was never enforced by the FCC for some reason. Now Dolby AC4 will handle this and provides a second audio source and with a smaller footprint.

Personally, this is a joke and not needed! Then try and work with Dolby is a run-around!

Regards,

Jeff Schumann
Manhattan-Digital
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elbandido
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« Reply #57 on: July 08, 2019, 10:14:33 PM »

Dolby is an ATSC sponsor. it would follow logic that their audio would be used.  Either get dealt in or dealt out I guess...

AC4 audio, HDR, and the ability to receive non 4k sub-channels are just a few reasons WHY it would be foolish or at least a bad idea to purchase 2016-2018 ATSC 3.0 products from South Korea. It should be easy to see now why those ATSC 3.0 television sets and other 3.0 devices did not simply float over here a couple of years ago.

There is plenty of time to get AC4 audio into devices because it will be another year or two for ATSC 3.0 to become widely available for regular users. The terrestrial frequency repack will continue until late 2020, and many ATSC 3.0 transitions cannot take place until the repack completes.

No worries or hurries when it comes to ATSC 3.0 for the average terrestrial television watcher.
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Jimlw1
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« Reply #58 on: July 08, 2019, 10:27:04 PM »

Jeff S

Oh no!  Don't tell me that someone found some smart pills, and they are going back to the OLD radio days and "Reverse Engineering" the AVC circuits that some IDIOT saved a few coins per TV set by leaving [ AVC ] out !!!!

About "DAMN TIME" someone started thinking about taking the Volume Control away from the DEAF Audio Engineers.

That is just my opinion - and i will stick with it - til the end...

jimlw1
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Jeff S.
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« Reply #59 on: July 15, 2019, 12:37:52 PM »

Well, I understand more now after I talked with Dolby. For years we just pass Dolby AC3 through and worked through the factory. Only to find out any charges the factory was keeping those funds. We understand Dolby needs to get paid and their technology was not being supported and stolen by China mostly.

Yes, I agree with you El, the ATSC is the main issue just like the NRTC is to satellite, criminals. I see on the RFDT channel they are still pushing for their free money for doing nothing campaign. Then ATSC hires a women to get the women's approval in congress. All moves that shake your head!

The volume control and the second audio in place is nice with AC4. Just think if the FTA business was to license this and have a second audio in English for the foreign programs. I'm not sure if any of those programs are enticing to the FTA users.

I understand the wait and see approach fro 3.0. Some people cannot wait and are still purchasing multimedia boxes in 1.0. Which is not a big deal since they are now giving these boxes away. By the way, T2 & T3 will be in AC4 in the future as well.

We will have our ATSC 3.0 products out q1 2020. That is because of AC4 delay. Hopefully we will have the S2x version out with ATSC 3.0 in q2 2020. Again the AC4 is the issue for some chipsets to comply. Most will not have it, but we are implementing the AC4 ourselves.

Regards,

Jeff Schumann
Manhattan-Digital


 

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