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Author Topic: ATSC 3.0  (Read 5393 times)
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elbandido
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« Reply #30 on: May 10, 2019, 11:22:28 AM »

"Scare" tactic Are your words. Please take time to fully watch the second video in post #24 and you will be educated or at least understand what some will be concerned with. Not everyone has  a smartphone or a Facebook account.

PBS is  a Public Broadcasting System. Do not look for them to go to ATSC 3.0 without keeping an ATSC 1.0 option.

Low Power Television Service or LPTV  has a limited viewing area when compared to a full power tv service in the same area, and does normally not have the profit margin of a full power television service. You can think what you want or advertise what you want, but it would be suicide for any of these stations to switch over to ATSC 3.0 right now, and probably for at least 5 years to come. You can expect a lot of the LPTV's to stay at ATSC 1.0 indefinitely.  We will see...


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digitaldan
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« Reply #31 on: May 15, 2019, 06:43:38 AM »

Not scare tactics. Truth. Here is the filing.

Code:
https://ecfsapi.fcc.gov/file/10220062617978/PMC%20Comments%20-%20ATSC%203.0%20FCC%20Further%20Notice%20of%20Proposed%20Rulemaking.pdf

 Page 5 is clear about the Flash-cutting. Posting and talking about developments isn't scare tactics. It is simply being informative.

 Then there is the decision.... Paragraph 40 and 41 tell about the exemption from simulcasting is exempted for LPTV stations and TV Translator stations.

  "d. Simulcast exception for LPTV and TV translator stations
40. We exempt LPTV and TV translator stations from our local simulcasting requirement and
allow these stations to elect to transition directly to 3.0 service. LPTV and TV translator stations electing
to transition directly must first file an application to convert their facilities to 3.0 operation. In addition,
they must comply with the MVPD notification and consumer education requirements adopted herein.
41. We adopt this simulcast exception for LPTV and TV translator stations in recognition of
the fact that they face unique challenges in locating a simulcast partner. As a practical matter, many are
not located near another LPTV or TV translator station and they may not be attractive simulcast partners
for full power stations because of their lower power and coverage area.121
 In addition, because LPTV and
TV translator stations are secondary, they are subject to displacement by primary full power and Class A
stations, further reducing their desirability as partner host stations. Absent an exemption from our local
simulcasting requirement, LPTV and TV translator stations could be denied the opportunity to implement
ATSC 3.0 service until the Commission eliminates the simulcast requirement.122

42. We recognize that permitting LPTV and TV translator stations to transition directly to
ATSC 3.0 could deprive those OTA viewers without ATSC 3.0 TV sets or converter equipment of the
important programming these stations provide.123
 MVPD subscribers could also be affected if MVPDs
are not prepared to carry ATSC 3.0 signals on the date of a direct transition.
124 Although we recognize
that permitting LPTV and TV translator stations to transition directly may cause some consumer
disruption, in light of the unique circumstances faced by LPTV and TV translator stations we conclude
that providing these stations with the option to transition directly will best ensure that they are able to
deploy ATSC 3.0 technology.
43. Exempting LPTV and TV translator stations from the local simulcasting requirement will
have the added benefit of allowing these stations to serve as “lighthouse” stations, thereby providing an
ATSC 3.0 host option for other full power, Class A, LPTV, and TV translator stations that wish to partner
with them.125
 LPTV stations could, therefore, serve an important role in market-wide simulcast
arrangements by permitting other stations to experiment with 3.0 service while maintaining ATSC 1.0
service on their existing facility. As noted above, our goal is to encourage Next Gen TV broadcasters to
initiate 3.0 service on another facility initially while maintaining their 1.0 simulcast signal at the station’s
existing location, when possible, to help avoid disruption to viewers and MVPDs. LPTV stations that
elect to transition directly and to serve as ATSC 3.0 host stations could thus play a significant role in
facilitating the conversion to 3.0 technology.126
 While viewers without ATSC 3.0-capable equipment
would lose access to LPTV and TV translator stations that elect to transition directly, these stations may
also provide innovative 3.0 programming that could help drive consumer adoption of such equipment.
Thus, on balance, we believe that the benefit of permitting these stations to transition directly outweighs
the potential harm.
44. Finally, our decision to exempt LPTV and TV translator stations from our local
simulcasting requirement will ensure that analog LPTV and TV translator stations and stations that have
been displaced due to the post-incentive auction repacking process are not forced to build both an ATSC
1.0 and an ATSC 3.0 facility. The Commission has determined that LPTV and TV translator stations
must complete their transition to digital service by July 13, 2021.127
 The Commission previously changed  this deadline to ensure that analog LPTV and TV translator stations would not be forced to complete their
digital conversion only to find that their newly constructed digital facilities were displaced as a result of
the incentive auction repacking process, thus necessitating a significant additional expenditure to locate a
new channel and modify their digital facilities accordingly.128
 Many digital LPTV stations will also be
required to seek new channels and construct new facilities as a result of the incentive auction. By
exempting LPTV and TV translator stations from the simulcasting requirement, we similarly avoid
forcing these stations to make significant expenditures in new ATSC 1.0 facilities by July 13, 2021 only
later to be faced with a further expenditure of resources if the station chooses to convert those facilities to
ATSC 3.0.129

45. We decline to restrict the ability of LPTV and TV translator stations affiliated with a
broadcast network to directly transition, as advocated by ATVA.130
 We are not persuaded that there is
any reasoned basis to give network affiliated stations less flexibility than other secondary stations in this
respect.131
 These stations may face the same challenges finding a simulcast partner as other LPTV and
TV translator stations, and we believe they should have the same opportunity to serve as potential ATSC
3.0 “lighthouse” stations.132
 We note that we are affording LPTV and TV translator stations with the
opportunity to transition directly, but are not requiring them to do so.133
 Thus, any LPTV or TV translator
station that wishes to deploy ATSC 3.0 service may elect to air both an ATSC 1.0 and ATSC 3.0 stream
by partnering with another station rather than transitioning directly. Stations that transition directly could
also consider taking steps to minimize the disruption to viewers, such as offering free converter devices
(e.g., an external tuner dongle, set-top box, or gateway device) that enable ATSC 1.0-only receivers to be
upgraded to receive ATSC 3.0 transmissions. LPTV and TV translator stations that elect voluntarily to
simulcast must comply with the simulcasting requirements we adopt herein, including the substantially
similar programming requirement and the coverage requirements related to ATSC 1.0 and 3.0 signals.
Applying these requirements to LPTV and TV translator stations that simulcast is consistent with the goal......."

 And I could go on for many more pages. But for those that need all the info here is the link... In those pages you will read that ALL LPTV stations must have Next-Gen TV by 2021. That is a FCC requirement now it appears when you read the new rules.

Code:
http://transition.fcc.gov/Daily_Releases/Daily_Business/2017/db1120/FCC-17-158A1.pdf

 Like I have said before. I do not pretend to know more than the people actually deploying this new system.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2019, 07:30:26 AM by digitaldan » Logged
elbandido
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« Reply #32 on: May 15, 2019, 09:24:14 PM »

The transition from ATSC 1.0 to ATSC 3.0 is strictly voluntary!
No LPTV station has to transmit Next-Gen TV or ATSC 3.0 by 2021. ATSC 1.0 can continue indefinitely. You are welcome to show where any FCC document states otherwise.

PBS gets its operating money from where?
LPTV gets its operating money from where?

You will be mighty lucky if any PBS and LPTV stations switch to Next-Gen TV or ATSC 3.0 standards for at least a few years. The only way most of these types of stations can afford to switch will only be when Next-Gen TV or ATSC 3.0 tuners are commonly found in American households. It will take years for that to happen, not months. Some PBS and LPTV stations will probably stay at ATSC 1.0 indefinitely.

The mesh dish salesman says the cord cutters are switching to c band satellite.
The ATSC 3.0 salesman says the cord cutters are switching to OTA tv services.
In reality, more cord cutters are switching to IPTV services than satellite or OTA tv.

ATSC 3.0 is designed to be used with an internet connection. Will be interesting to see how that goes over.  Kendra Chamberlain has some thoughts about that and explains a rational reason for the "free" ATSC 3.0 smartphone chips. (See link)

Code:
https://broadbandnow.com/report/sinclair-next-gen-tv/

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digitaldan
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« Reply #33 on: May 16, 2019, 07:17:45 AM »

The transition from ATSC 1.0 to ATSC 3.0 is strictly voluntary!
No LPTV station has to transmit Next-Gen TV or ATSC 3.0 by 2021. ATSC 1.0 can continue indefinitely. You are welcome to show where any FCC document states otherwise.

PBS gets its operating money from where?
LPTV gets its operating money from where?

You will be mighty lucky if any PBS and LPTV stations switch to Next-Gen TV or ATSC 3.0 standards for at least a few years. The only way most of these types of stations can afford to switch will only be when Next-Gen TV or ATSC 3.0 tuners are commonly found in American households. It will take years for that to happen, not months. Some PBS and LPTV stations will probably stay at ATSC 1.0 indefinitely.

The mesh dish salesman says the cord cutters are switching to c band satellite.
The ATSC 3.0 salesman says the cord cutters are switching to OTA tv services.
In reality, more cord cutters are switching to IPTV services than satellite or OTA tv.

ATSC 3.0 is designed to be used with an internet connection. Will be interesting to see how that goes over.  Kendra Chamberlain has some thoughts about that and explains a rational reason for the "free" ATSC 3.0 smartphone chips. (See link)

Code:
https://broadbandnow.com/report/sinclair-next-gen-tv/





  Well good day my friend. Lets take this one by one to help you understand. To the first point you make. Switching is voluntary. Correct. So was manufacturing cars in the day of the horse and buggy. How did that work out for those that stuck with the horse and buggy?

 Your second question... I did post the document if you care to read it. And that is not an ordinary document. That is an "Order". The rules if you will that were just changed recently. In that paper it tells how the LPTV and PBS stations can't afford to do the frequency switch and go for the new system unless they can flash-cut. So the rules were changed to allow that. Maybe not on your planet, but they were here as you will see if you read the entire document before offering an opinion. For your information with all due respect my local PBS station already has a banner up telling of PBS Kids coming soon. As far as doubting about PBS? DOH! They are supported by us along with Government Grants! The government is paying their way with some proceeds from the auction. At least that is the way it is set up. By the way certian other stations are getting grants to pay for stuff to. Who Knew? Anyway they can't afford to buy a new transmitter for the frequency change and then go to the new system. So they get exempted from the double illumination of their signal and are allowed to go straight to the new system. For me that means this fall. Here the stations that must change frequency have bought and installed new ATSC transmitters and can flip as early as this November. One station already has lit up 6 more sub-channels in preparation. Maybe Atlanta is stuck in the Flintstone era, but the rest of the Country is not.

 As for the tuners, it has been spelled out again in the document from the FCC if you even care to read it. The chip that was released last February is a chip that covers all standards in broadcasting. The demand for that regardless of the new ATSC 3 system is plenty to keep the price down because it can be made and used now by currant broadcast standards worldwide.

 Next point.... Your so called mesh salesman.... No mesh salesman is saying that unless they think you are not smart. The problem with that is 5G.... They are stripping bandwidth from the C-band spectrum. They are talking having to get new LNB's as opposed to a new dish in order to block out the 5G interference they are expecting. Read up on the 5G stuff my friend.

 Now to cover the other salesmen you remarked about. The streaming and OTA guys. Well they are in kahoots together! The new system allows for streaming. Now I don't know about other peoples preferences but the studies have shown that people are streaming and mounting antennas. That is a fact weather anyone believes it it not. I really don't care. There are people that think even today the world is flat. So now with the new system the user will not have to do anything but press a button. No web site to go to. No browser or VLC Player to bring up. Just simply press one button on your TV or Tuner remote. Oh yea... I almost forgot.... The tuner box for the next-gen system can be hooked into your network so it can distribute TV throughout the house over WiFi. No wires to run. Don't need no tuner for each room. Wow! That would even keep the cost down per household!

 Finally I thank you for the article. it was very informative. It is also very outdated. But to put my 2 cents worth in on that so every base is covered here.... If you have a cell phone, they already know more about you than any TV system will. So if you have a cell phone and are worried about others getting your data...... Well then you would be known as Schizophrenic in the world of psychiatry. One minute everything is OK. The next everyones out to watch me... That is a classic symptom. The latest on the data collection is that it will be used just ;ike social media. Targeted advertising.

 That is the truth people weather you like it or not. Weather you believe it or not. Is their any hurry to rush out and buy for the new system? No.
But then I wound up buying my first HDTV set late 2008! And no it was not expensive as naysayers said it was going to be. The reason that this was made "Voluntary" to switch is because enough stations are going to change because they need new transmitters ans sticks to move to the mew assigned frequency that they will buy ATSC capable transmitters ans sticks. The rest will either get on board or go the way of the Horse and buggy. That is just a simple fact of life. Either keep up or die as a business.
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elbandido
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« Reply #34 on: May 24, 2019, 11:41:14 PM »


No credible company has marketed an affordable ATSC 3.0 tuner in North America to date, and it will probably be well into 2020 before affordable ATSC 3.0/1.0 tuners are available.

The Media Bureau will start accepting applications towards the end of May, 2019 for ATSC 3.0 transitions. An application may take some time to process, then it may be months or even years before the transition processes outlined in the application are completed.

There are concerns as to whether ATSC 3.0 will be better than ATSC 1.0, so an application to convert an ATSC 3.0 facility back to ATSC 1.0 service is available.
Quote
As we have argued throughout this proceeding, if the ATSC 3.0 transition is to be truly “voluntary” for all parties, broadcasters should not obtain carriage of ATSC 3.0 signals (in which viewers may have little interest) by threatening existing television service (in which viewers have a great deal of interest).  This is especially important if, as one of the transition’s largest backers seemed to indicate recently, ATSC 3.0 signals turn out to be no better for television viewers than ATSC 1.0 signals are.

It also seems that a decision has yet to be made as to whether LPTV can transition directly to ATSC 3.0. Some are arguing against it.

The transition from analog to ATSC 1.0 caused some end users to lose tv signals. The transition from ATSC 1.0 to ATSC 3,0 may cause some end users that are on ATSC 1.0 to have a degraded picture.   GN Docket No. 16-142 is attached.


I guess a 4K OTA picture would be nice, but even that seems unlikely.
Quote
Better Pictures’ Not the ‘Ultimate Best Use’ of ATSC 3.0, Says Sinclair CEO,” Communications Daily (Feb. 28, 2018) (“The ‘first iteration’ of 3.0 for Korean broadcasters ‘has just been focused on better resolution, better pictures, which we don’t think is the ultimate best use of that technology, and I think they’ll agree,’ said Ripley.”)

The bottom line so far for this transition does not look that good for the end user. The advertisers benefit more than anyone else. ATSC 3.0 will continue to be dead until affordable tuners are available to view it, and until televisions stations are transmitting it.
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digitaldan
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« Reply #35 on: May 27, 2019, 10:12:00 AM »

 Thanks for the PDF. I read it. I also noticed that the date was last year. The recent decision this year about the "Flash-cutting" was on that very petition from last year. In other words they reconsidered and this last decision is the answer. Simply put not all stations can afford to simulcast. Namely PBS stations.

 On the tuners... Both LG and Samsung are ready to go. Samsung has one out that translates to $37.00 U.S. Something like 41,000 Korean.

Code:
https://www.samsung.com/sec/tv-accessories/uhd-kit-sek-m90/

 And then their is LG... 
Code:
https://imgur.com/a/iN4s6

 These are ready to go now. Simply a marketing decision as to when here in the states. The ATSC 3.0 standard is meant to be world wide. All they have to do is ship here as told by John Taylor of LG......

   “You’re a year or so early,” he said. “We’re trying to time the introduction of the product with the critical mass of Next-Gen TV broadcasting, and the whole industry seems to be moving toward a 2020 product launch.” Taylor did seem fairly certain that the 3.0 sets would be populating manufacturers’ exhibit spaces at the 2020 CES to “prime the pumps” of buyers who would be at that show to decide what to stock their stores with for the 2020 holiday buying season.

And while others in the industry have hinted that there may be a problem with delivery of some of the components needed for 3.0 sets, Taylor was quick to state otherwise.

“There’s no technology issue at all,” he said. “It’s a business marketplace consideration about the right time to introduce the product in the U.S. market. We could ship the product today. As you know, we’re shipping ATSC 3.0 TVs in Korea, but it has to make sense for the U.S. market and that’s heading towards 2020.”

Taylor noted that LG and its Zenith R&D subsidiary are providing receiver products and technical support for some of the U.S. ATSC 3.0 field trials.

 So no problem there.

 Now that all said here is the other side. You are correct to point out some issues. But the issues are with interference. Here where I am I sit between two markets. Ft.Wayne and South Bend in Indiana. Ft.Wayne has installed some new ATSC 3.0 equipment. This is happening because of the repack. Stations aren't going to buy transmitters that are not ready to go on the new system. Sinclair has FOX and CBS here. WNIT the local PBS station has banners up already advertising the PBS Kids channel that PBS has stated will be their new 3.0 broadcast. "Coming Soon" it says. Well the repack is to be complete by October and one month has been allowed to "Test".  I for one really want to get a tuner just so I can play and be curious. Right now ABC 57 moved to the sister station CW 25 because of the interference from Ft.Wayne. Channel 28 added 5 more channels. Stuff is getting done. We just do not hear about it. To the remark the Sinclair CEO made, He is correct. They are looking at using some of the capability they will have to do things like upgrade your car computer as you drive. This system will be linked to the 5G that is happening. Many think they are competitors. They are partners IMHO. Also right now I can attest that reception sux. My FM reception and almost all of the TV stations are very weak to the point of not getting them. I.E. I get 95.3 radio from Battle Creek instead of Niles. Niles is closer by a long shot.  But with the lowered power so towers can be climbed and new equipment like transmitters can be installed, this is the norm. I listen to my station for now through the App they have. Things here will be better in a few months as the work wraps up. Glad it is happening now! At least I can get outside in the summer!

 
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elbandido
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« Reply #36 on: May 27, 2019, 12:52:36 PM »

As of May 23, 2019, no final decision has been made for LPTV transitions.
I also cannot find any subsidies or documents stating monies were transferred to PBS stations for ATSC 3.0 transitions. You are welcome to post documents that support this, but I doubt any exist.

From attached GN Docket No. 16-42:
Under the Commission’s rules, LPTV and TV Translators are exempt from the local simulcasting requirement. 47
CFR § 74.782(b). This exemption is currently subject to a pending Petition for Reconsideration. Petition for Reconsideration of American Television Alliance, GN Docket No. 16-142, at 5-8 (filed Mar. 6, 2019)

Documents and editorials are not "Dated" or "Out of Date"if the information in them still applies. Sometimes it takes months or years for final decisions to be made.


The ATSC 3.0 Korean tuners or electronic equipment in your links are not suitable for use on ATSC 3.0 systems that are currently being tested in the United States.


Car companies already have the capability to send operational software updates to vehicles. These types of updates are not done OTA or wireless due to safety concerns. A vehicle is taken to a certified service department for these updates for more than one reason. Maybe this will change at some point in the future, but probably not in the next several years.


Features of consumer ATSC 3.0  tuners thay have yet to be manufactured are only speculation until they are tested and released. Most of the claimed features for ATSC 3.0 tuners already exist in some ATSC 1.0 systems.
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« Reply #37 on: May 27, 2019, 11:19:48 PM »

Hey Dan I live in the fort wayne area near you. They got a new encoder at CW station added 5 more channels. I have asked them about ASTC 3.0 its still far off they said. If you are saying what you are saying I should be able to test out the 3.0 stuff real easy. I used to work for Kings antenna service he would like to get his hands on a ASTC 3.0 receiver. I can get all the way around the area here in Angola.
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digitaldan
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« Reply #38 on: May 29, 2019, 07:48:44 AM »

Hey Dan I live in the fort wayne area near you. They got a new encoder at CW station added 5 more channels. I have asked them about ASTC 3.0 its still far off they said. If you are saying what you are saying I should be able to test out the 3.0 stuff real easy. I used to work for Kings antenna service he would like to get his hands on a ASTC 3.0 receiver. I can get all the way around the area here in Angola.

 Correct my friend. The equipment they put in if they are involved in the frequency shift, is ATSC 3.0 ready. Many stations will just add an exciter for 3.0 transmission. Also the Government is taking the money they got from the auction and giving it to the stations to cover the costs. We just do not hear about it. As for the "It won't happen for awhile" remark, many are tight lipped about the transition for some reason. My guess as to that is that it will kill the TV set sales. I wouldn't buy one knowing there is a set time to use it. That is just common sense.

 As far as the Tuners being different around the world. That is a lie. The top dogs for LG and Samsung say otherwise. They will know more than I or anyone else I don't care who you are. So I default to their judgement. They say the hardware is the same. And bearing in mind that this will be eventually a world standard, the equipment would have to be the same. Phones will work internationally. TV will be international not regional like it is now.

There’s no technology issue at all,” he said. “It’s a business marketplace consideration about the right time to introduce the product in the U.S. market. We could ship the product today. As you know, we’re shipping ATSC 3.0 TVs in Korea, but it has to make sense for the U.S. market and that’s heading towards 2020.”
 
 That quote is from LG. They know more than I and everyone else when it comes to their product. If they say the sets are the same, then they are. I won't propagate a lie by continuing to feed a falsehood about hardware differences.
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« Reply #39 on: May 29, 2019, 10:48:25 AM »

The ATSC 3.0 devices that you have posted links for do not work correctly for our ATSC 3.0 test stations. This has been documented on other forums, so you need to do some checking before you start saying something is a LIE.


ATSC 3.0 transitions are Not being subsidized by the Federal Government at this time. Tax payers are Not supposed to pay for this transition.

The only area in Indiana slated to have ATSC 3.0 soon will be Indianapolis. There are no hidden ATSC 3.0 transitions taking place.

A nice webinar is available for those that want to learn about the ATSC transition from people that actually know.

Code:
https://cpbnet.webex.com/ec3300/eventcenter/recording/recordAction.do?theAction=poprecord&siteurl=cpbnet&entappname=url3300&internalRecordTicket=4832534b000000044f5749e2b768fe682f7605a0cc6bab9f1f6b14aa907652805a34804060fc9370&renewticket=0&isurlact=true&format=short&rnd=3849745509&RCID=58d6b05f510b8c85fddc9c872dbfd001&rID=99270017&needFilter=false&recordID=99270017&apiname=lsr.php&AT=pb&actappname=ec3300&&SP=EC&entactname=%2FnbrRecordingURL.do&actname=%2Feventcenter%2Fframe%2Fg.do

Quote
Duration:    1 hour 21 minutes
Description:    Dennis Wallace, a leading expert in the field of ATSC 3 from the engineering consulting firm of Meintel, Sgrignoli and Wallace, along with representatives from PBS, APTS, and BIA Advisory Services will review the technical, regulatory, and business aspects of ATSC 3, along with the latest ATSC 3 news coming out of the NAB Show. With the approval of the ATSC 3 standard, pilot market tests are underway across the country and public television stations are moving forward in considering their options -- with many questions along the way. The panel will provide answers to all of your questions on the opportunities and challenges of ATSC 3.


« Last Edit: May 29, 2019, 11:03:52 AM by elbandido » Logged
digitaldan
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« Reply #40 on: June 02, 2019, 08:26:01 AM »

I don't know about what you have been told. But here is the reality....

 
Code:
https://www.multichannel.com/news/fcc-frees-up-more-money-for-tv-station-repack

 The spectrum auction is allowing for the money to be awarded to stations having to repack. That is a must and not voluntary. The stations are buying new transmitters and equipment that is ATSC 3.0 ready because of the repack. When done all they will need is a software update to the new equipment or if they have the software already then they flip a switch.  No station that cares to stay on the air is going to buy ATSC 1.0 only equipment. If they did then I have some ocean front property in the middle of Iowa I will sell them at a bargain price. Over a billion has been awarded and appropriated by Congress. So whoever said that no money has been handed out is uninformed to say the least and I don't care about who they say they are. Congress has done it. And as stated in the above article, more is on the way.

 This critter they call ATSC 3.0 is constantly changing and morphing. Things are changing every day. Even the repack is running ahead of schedule. Also another tidbit. Some of the wireless carriers like T-Mobile are helping with the costs.


 And to close you said...  "The ATSC 3.0 devices that you have posted links for do not work correctly for our ATSC 3.0 test stations. This has been documented on other forums, so you need to do some checking before you start saying something is a LIE."

 Well again I was showing what the head of LG has said. So go ahead and call him a liar if you like. But if that guy says the systems are the same then they are as far as I am concerned. ATSC 3.0 is going to be a world standard. Can't have that if the systems are going to be different in different countries. So that is the end goal. Will it happen world wide? Who knows at this point. Have to wait and see as the application to make this a world standard has just been turned in for consideration.

Code:
https://www.broadcastingcable.com/news/t-mobile-help-kxas-move-early-172373

 And that is old news too. The money is not really the problem some would like people to believe my friend.

  
« Last Edit: June 02, 2019, 08:32:44 AM by digitaldan » Logged
elbandido
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« Reply #41 on: June 02, 2019, 10:25:12 AM »

Repack funds from the Government only pay for the parts needed to change frequencies, and the additional costs that are directly associated with changing frequencies.
Repack funds do not pay for ATSC 3.0 systems.

The ATSC 3.0 devices that you have posted links for do not work correctly for our ATSC 3.0 test stations.  The head of LG did not say the devices you posted links for work correctly for our ATSC 3.0 test stations.
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digitaldan
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« Reply #42 on: June 03, 2019, 07:35:11 AM »

Repack funds from the Government only pay for the parts needed to change frequencies, and the additional costs that are directly associated with changing frequencies.
Repack funds do not pay for ATSC 3.0 systems.

The ATSC 3.0 devices that you have posted links for do not work correctly for our ATSC 3.0 test stations.  The head of LG did not say the devices you posted links for work correctly for our ATSC 3.0 test stations.

 Like I said... If you care to read my friend.... The stations that are involved in the repack is using the repack money and getting new equipment. The new equipment is ready for the new standard. Does that mean they will switch at the same time? Don't know. But they will have the capability to do so. It really would be stupid and ignorant to buy new ATSC 1 only equipment. I don't know any station managers that are that stupid or ignorant...... Face it the change is closer than one thinks.

 
 Here is the Senior Vice President of Public Affairs at LG. To me that is a Top Guy. Or at least one of them. He said....


“There’s no technology issue at all,” he said. “It’s a business marketplace consideration about the right time to introduce the product in the U.S. market. We could ship the product today. As you know, we’re shipping ATSC 3.0 TVs in Korea, but it has to make sense for the U.S. market and that’s heading towards 2020.”  That was from an interview from TV Technology at this years CES. So that answers your comment about standards being different like they are today. ATSC 3.0 is so flexible we can have differences between stations here in the states. But the overall format is the same. That is the way it was designed.

 And to settle the debate on a tuner.... Genotech has been around.... Gee, What do we have here???

Code:
https://shop.geniatech.us/product/a683/


 Looks like an ATSC 3.0 receiver to me! Fairly cheap too! 70 bucks from what I hear. There isn't supposed to be anything like this out I thought........ Oh yea... Manhattan is going to have on this year also. They have been around too and seem to be a legitimate company. Heard it was going to be cheap too. Go Figure.

 As far as the test station and the South Korean tuners go I have read mixed results. The truth is we don't know if they work or not because the testing is a closed deal. LG says the technology is the same. I have an old cable tuner. But it won't work either unless they allow it to. Satellites work the same way. They call it scrambling I think. Don't know if that is happening in the test bed areas, but it would make sense during the test. Would I buy a Korean receiver? Not at this time. But the chip that was unveiled a few months back in Feb. covers all standards.

 Again I am not trying to scare anyone or argue.  I am doing my best to be polite in spite of being called a liar in a round about way.....Maybe the switch will take awhile. Maybe it won't. I am just posting news from those that know more than all of us.

 So get mad. Get upset and scream and say this isn't going to happen. Fact is It is happening like it or not. Maybe on it's own timetable. Each station will decide. But coming late this year and all of next changes will be happening.

 To close I could say a lot more. But sworn to secrecy for now. People will hear more at the proper time and that will be dictated by the market. Just remember.... Just because people aren't talking about changes at the local level doesn't mean that changes are not happening. Quite the opposite my friend. Enjoy the ride!


« Last Edit: June 03, 2019, 07:48:53 AM by digitaldan » Logged
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« Reply #43 on: June 03, 2019, 08:16:38 AM »

The tuners you posted a link for in post#35 do not work correctly for our ATSC 3.0 test channels. Nowhere did I say the ATSC 3.0 standards are different.

Here is part of the reason those tuners do not work correctly for us:
Quote
As I've already shown they already exist in mass production in Korea. Unfortunately what I've learned so far is that the box I imported from there last year cannot decode any 3.0 subchannel that isn't in 2160p! You see, over in Seoul, the ATSC 3.0 stations there are just 1 2160p subchannel and nothing else, basically they believe 4K is the be all end all use case.

I sent the box down to Phoenix, where the 3.0 transmitter is 2 1080p and 1 480p subchannel, and the box sees the channels but displays nothing more than a black screen.
 kc9pke, Dec 16, 2018

It will be interesting to see how much a tuner costs for ATSC 3.0 that does work correctly. Having a picture posted on a website, and being able to actually purchase the product are two different things...

Manhattan has being saying since 2017 that they would release ATSC 3.0 tuner, or a box that has this capability. You lose credibility when you continue to say you are doing things and do not do them. Maybe a product will actually appear soon from this company instead of more excuses.
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« Reply #44 on: June 03, 2019, 09:16:02 PM »

Great thread so far, with lots great info, great articles, and lots of opinions.

Please remember to keep all discussions and all comments friendly and respectful.

We are all here to help each other.

To learn/share info.


Thanks.



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