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Author Topic: 600+ FM Stations Could Be Affected by TV Repack  (Read 1925 times)
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« on: July 10, 2017, 05:52:13 PM »

Study Finds 600+ FM Stations Could Be Affected by TV Repack

FROM:RADIOWORLD.COM
By Paul McLane
July 6, 2017



We already knew that the ambitious TV spectrum “repack” process over the next three years was likely to have operational implications for FM broadcasters in the United States. Now an NAB-commissioned study seeks to quantify the scope of the impact on radio.

The study, conducted by V-Soft Communications, finds that more than 600 FM stations could be affected by the repack, a process in which over 1,100 TV stations will change channels or, in some cases, go off the air. Many of the TV stations will require antenna replacements or other tower work that could take days, or weeks.

The possible impact on radio is broken down in the accompanying table .........

Read full article here:

Code:
http://www.radioworld.com/news-and-business/0002/study-finds-600-fm-stations-could-be-affected-by-tv-repack/339985


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« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2017, 09:29:47 AM »

We are working with a large broadcaster who dislikes the FCC and the ATSC group and their rules. Regardless of the facts and what has happened. Expect 3 repacks from ATSC 1.0 to 3.0 until 2020 is what slated. It will start next year, but make sure you have 1.0 and 3.0 in your system. If your in the rural area, expect to have filtering in your system to block out adjacent channels. Yes, greed has found it way into your local programming. All the broadcasters who are moving to VHF has been paid serious money to do so!

One of the reasons for the delay is the lack of towers to build for these systems as in most markets they want to be on one tower. Building those towers there have been workers serious injury's and deaths  that has put a halt on construction. With new wireless and TV towers coming on line. If someone wants to get into a business, tower work is a huge business with no end in sight!

We will be bringing in 3.0 products after the 1st of the year. With the specification that ATSC has proposed mandating Dolby and the FCC requirements of having CC built into each device are huge costs to the devices and their sizes. We still do believe that USB sticks are going to come out. We will not produce these but will produce a small box with external antenna input in the device. The reason is the cable weight will hinder the support of the USB stick and fall out of the slot. The we will have them in our box type hybrid units.

Congress is finally stepping into these issues and costs of these devices. Even a few in Congress are suggesting the coupon system again.

There are chipset that will be available for device makers to have ATSC 3.0 in their mobile units. The tuners still the illusive component that is missing from the equation. That is a hindrance to the market which as people want to have these ATSC/IP units know, not next year!

We will be making an announcement in the near future on our programming service as well. We have been working on this for many years. We have a great group of people and companies on board. We hope the C Band people will like it too! 

Regards,

Jeff Schumann
Manhattan-Digital
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elbandido
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« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2017, 10:28:12 AM »

Everybody I have talked with in Atlanta and Alabama says regular ATSC 3.0 will not be available on local television stations until after 2020 except for testing. The repack itself takes 30 something months and has just begun.

I cannot find one tv in WalMart that is ATSC 3,0 capable, and I cannot find any ATSC 3.0 usb stick. The reason no ATSC tuners are available is because the non-test  ATSC 3.0 television transmissions are years from happening - and even then they are voluntary.

Best of Luck in pursuing ATSC 3.0 for any consumer receiver at this point in time!
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digitaldan
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« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2018, 06:42:51 PM »

Quote
The ATSC enters 2018 marking a major milestone in the development of the Next Gen TV platform with the release of the suite of ATSC 3.0 standards, enabling deployment of services and products. The world’s first Internet Protocol-based broadcasting system is now a reality!

ATSC 3 means leapfrogging innovations, from robust transmission to immersive audio, from 4K UHD to interactive services and more. This is a tremendous accomplishment that ATSC members and industry colleagues can be most proud of as we enter the next exciting phase for Next Gen TV.

While we pause to celebrate the release of the ATSC 3.0 suite on January 9, we look ahead to 2018 with a great sense of optimism and enthusiasm.

The ATSC is uniquely positioned to support initial launches of 3.0 services and products beginning this year.

 This was the opening statement from this article.....

Code:
https://www.atsc.org/newsletter/presidents-memo-new-year-new-standard-2/


ATSC 3.0 is here now. Not years away. Just an update on where this change is at. Have a great day!
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« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2018, 07:50:42 PM »

(1) What tv stations are currently using ATSC 3.0?
(2) What televisions that can be easily purchased currently have ATSC 3.0 tuners? Please supply make/model.
(3) Please provide any Consumer make/model of ATSC 3.0 tuner that can be purchased and added to an existing television or video system.






 
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« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2018, 03:18:41 PM »

LG and Samsung should release by the end of the year. As for channels the closest one to me is in Cleveland. Yes it is a test for now. It will be till the hardware gets over here. It only took a year to implement in Korea.

Code:
https://www.fiercecable.com/broadcasting/nab-cta-launching-atsc-3-0-test-station-cleveland


Quote
The ATSC 3.0 experimental broadcasts in Cleveland are using the transmitter and broadcast facilities of local Tribune Media-owned Fox affiliate WJW, where next-gen TV broadcast and consumer electronics equipment from more than a dozen different companies is already up and running.




Any more questions for crying out loud?

 It only takes a few minutes to find this out. Sinclair is leading the way and it has already been released in Korea. Olympics will be broadcast in ATSC 3.0. End of chapter and book my friend.  All they have to do is ship the tuners here. Why so pessimistic?  Also they are not going to be ATSC 3.0 tuners for the U.S. .... They will be duel ATSC 1.0 - 3.0 for here.  Equipment is going in as we exchange ideas and comments. Also the transition will not be forever like the initial switch to HD was. There was a 3 year limit to complete. That started last year. So this should be complete by 2020, not starting in 2020.
 Have a Great Day my friend.

Edited to add additional information..
« Last Edit: January 26, 2018, 03:25:57 PM by digitaldan » Logged
elbandido
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« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2018, 03:36:26 PM »

(1) We are not in Korea.
(2) You say LG and Samsung should release by the end of the year.
(3) ATSC 3.0 tests are not designed for the consumer.

You are looking at 2019-2020 at the earliest before ATSC 3.0 is available to the average consumer.

Good luck getting any ATSC 3.0 before then.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2018, 03:38:28 PM by elbandido » Logged
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« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2018, 06:10:56 PM »

The information in the link below pretty much mirrors what I have been told by tv station engineers. There is no FCC timetable to transition to ATSC 3.0 like there was with the previous transition. 
As of the last quarter of 2017, Hauppauge and some other ATSC tuner card manufacturers have no current plans to build ATSC 3.0 devices.


Code:
https://www.tablotv.com/blog/what-cord-cutters-need-know-about-atsc-3-part-2/

Quote
Unlike the transition from analog to digital TV in the early 2000s, there are no deadlines or timelines set out by the FCC for Next Gen TV via ATSC 3.0. The transition is instead being driven by market adoption, which means identifying the ‘when’ requires a bit of a crystal ball.

Broadcasters who can afford the equipment and manpower investment will likely jump on board the ATSC 3.0 bandwagon over the next three years or so. 

Early consumer adopters can expect ATSC 3.0 capable TVs, converter boxes, and DVRs to arrive around 2020 or later.

2023 is the earliest date any station could legally discontinue simulcasting the current ATSC 1.0 broadcasts, at which time you would need to purchase a new TV, converter box, or DVR to watch your local TV stations Over-the-Air.

By 2025 (ish), the transition should be mostly complete. That is, unless TV technology changes so much before then that ATSC 3.0 gets leapfrogged by something else... Like what happened with ATSC 2.0.

4K Is not doing too well right now.  Most likely, when the demand for 4K increases, the desire for ATSC 3.0 will also increase. It is also possible that both 4K and ATSC 3.0 end up being something else.
 
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« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2018, 07:49:39 PM »

Correct my friend. No timetable. The transition is voluntary. However they (FCC) did set a deadline to end 1.0 transmissions at 5 years from initial broadcast. With initial broadcasts starting this year as tests, that means about 2022-2024 will be the end of 1.0 signals depending when the FCC starts counting. I was merely pointing out that this year the consumer will see the beginning of the changeover. With the transmission of the signals now being allowed, each station will install equipment and make the change as the market allows. The consumer will see a few sets become available. That all said, I also remember 3D was going to be the next thing but it never took off. With the market in control however, and the report that a dozen consumer manufacturers were involved in Cleveland, And NBC, FOX,ABC,CBS,along with Telemundo in Phoenix and with the largest owner of stations (Sinclair) who is going balls out to deploy this year, we should see changes. As for Wal-Mart.... Nobody will stock sets till that particular area has a demand. So even then the change will be scattered. As far as availability of those sets go. They can be here as soon as they get shipped from overseas. Along with LG and Samsung, I found out you can add Sharp, Toshiba, And Hisense. they all are producing them now. They are just not here yet. This years CES show they did announce that "2018 will be the year the consumer can partake in Next-Gen TV."  Those guys know more than me so I tend to believe them. Have a Great Day!   smiley
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« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2018, 08:54:28 PM »

I have yet to see any FCC document that states ATSC 1.0 transmissions absolutely have to end. I think 2023 is the year that ATSC 1.0 does not have to be transmitted along with ATSC 3.0.  I would like to see any FCC document stating the mandatory end date for ATSC 1.0 transmissions.

CES was pretty much quiet on ATSC 3.0.
Quote
CES 2018 itself features virtually no ATSC 3.0 devices on public display. The ATSC expects that consumer products will be introduced in 2019 or 2020.


Code:
https://www.anandtech.com/show/12308/atsc-releases-atsc-30-digital-tv-standards-suite-internet-tv




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Jeff S.
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« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2018, 12:39:03 PM »

We will have sample tuners in about a months time.

We will have tuners in quantity at the binging of 4th quarter of 2018.  Like many we need to have these tuners in place to sell our ATSC boxes.

The Indian chipsets and tuners we will not have until early next year. So product will be out.

Yes the LG sets have ATSC 3.0 tuners in them as requested by Best Buy. Not sure of the model numbers but they are the OLED models. According to my sources LG and Samsung are hoarding the tuners and will not have a set top box with ATSC 3.0, just in the TV's.

We are looking at two box models one with IP and the other just a USB tuner. The IP model will have two tuners. These are ATSC 1.0/3.0 tuners.

It does not matter how many TV stations are going to broadcast, its about the future. I will not just sell an ATSC 1.0 box, that is not smart business. After the taxpayers paid these two companies to develop these tuners and the system only to have them hoard and delay the 3.0 deployment so they can introduce it first in their country.

They did a terrible job on the technology because the video on 3.0 in broadcasted by the Olympics is just terrible. The video chokes on low level graphics.

Take care,

Jeff Schumann
Manhattan-Digital
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« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2018, 06:20:15 PM »

I cannot find any LG or other models of television sets that have ATSC 3.0 tuners at Best Buy. Perhaps later in the year or 2019?

Television stations will be required to transmit ATSC 1.0 for several more years, and it costs money to transmit both ATSC 1.0 and ATSC 3.0. Details about this dual illumination requirement are still being worked out, and the frequency repack was not finished the last time I checked.

There are several different models of ATSC fta receivers being sold in North America today. We can expect adapters for ATSC 1.0 to ATSC 3.0. These ATSC 1.0 fta receivers along with ATSC 1.0 televisions can probably be used to a degree for ATSC 3.0. The plans are not to obsolete ATSC 1.0 devices overnight. I guess we will have to see how this works out.

Enigma2 fta receivers have been able to use several Hauppauge models of ATSC tuners for some years now. Adapting a new ATSC 3.0 tuner to enigma2 should not be too difficult. I guess we will see once 3.0 tuners are available. Enigma2 is a great operating system for fta, but no one seems to know how to capitalize on it in North America.

I am sure it would be nice to have a ATSC 1.0/3.0 tuner today in a fta receiver, but not really worried about it for the reasons mentioned above. Would also expect the very first ATSC 1.0/3.0 tuners to be buggy, not work correctly, or missing features that later, updated versions of ATSC 1.0/3.0 tuners would have.

I would hate to know that I was going to sit on the sidelines for a year, watching the competitors sell fta ATSC receivers while I waited for an ATSC 1.0/3.0 tuner to appear.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2018, 06:22:35 PM by elbandido » Logged
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« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2018, 06:35:12 AM »

That's what is great about America! Everyone can think what they want. Some people don't believe the sun will rise till it actually does.

Code:
http://www.tvtechnology.com/atsc3/0031/ces-2018-atsc-30-coming-of-age-celebrated/282528


Code:
http://www.gatesair.com/documents/slides/2017-10-seccia-tv-spectrum-repack-process-update-atsc-3.0.pdf


 As for atsc 1.0 goes, transmission will end in 5 years according to FCC as stated in a few posts above. 94 stations are slated to start this year. Another 114 by April next year.  Sure the TV you have will function just fine for awhile. That said, electronics companies do not make any money unless they innovate and develop and sell new equipment. They do not make money riding old technology to the grave. That is a fact of life. Has been for years. Finally, the fact that the stations will have another way to make money with the new system through targeted adds will only serve to enhance the switch. I know of no company that says no hurry to make money. Those guys went out of business because they did not change. Maybe if I am lucky, I will see ATSC 3.0 around here. The South Bend Indiana market is a coveted one because it sits between Detroit and Chicago making it a choice for an early switch. However EB your right. Just have to wait and see how this plays out. The info linked gives plenty of info. Pay attention to the first article towards the bottom. Clearly states that transmissions will start this year for the consumer to enjoy. The TV sets will simply be needed to shipped from over the ocean since Korea is the same standard. Not much to change the menus to english. Have a great day!
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« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2018, 07:26:10 AM »

Nothing new in your links. Just a rehash of information, and nothing about ATSC 1.0 ending in 5 years either. One thing that could speed ATSC 3.0 up would be to drop the length of time dual illumination of ATSC 3.0 and 1.0. I do not see the FCC changing the time frame on this much, but it might speed things up if stations were not required to dual illuminate for the next several years.

There is no time limit for ATSC 1.0 to end. It can continue indefinitely. I doubt that changes either.
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« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2018, 04:30:51 PM »

The dual illumination is being required due to the Religious Broadcaster objections and the power in Congress that support them. That has created some delay along with the promise of the former FCC commissioner to pay for the broadcaster equipment. That money is still being discussed in Congress. What was told by ATSC the billions of dollars made  from the UHF frequency sell-off towards the broadcast equipment and new towers. Then the FCC announced that money was going to be used for their new building. So who knows where that money went.

Yes any new TV being built in Korea has 3.0 in it. They are just getting rid of the old sets according to my source.

First of all, we will not adapt or support Enigma II and KODI as described by Android as an illegal file sharing systems. That will come from the FCC as well as the programmers and cable companies is pushing this through as well. Something that could of been special was destroyed by people who want to steal programming. Just like YouTube!

The USB tuners should be OK. We will have one as well, but not until next year when the new chipsets and tuners are ready. They will also be putting these into phones. We don't believe that is going to work well. We have a source for tuners for our current product.

Jeff Schumann
Manhattan-Digital
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