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Author Topic: Multi-Switch Question  (Read 5302 times)
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armadillo_115
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« Reply #60 on: Apr 25 2022 01:39:35 »

Both orders showed 'Clearing Customs started' 2 days ago. Showed 'Destination Country' and 'Out for delivery' yesterday. Arrival still set for May 15th and May 18th. Maybe they will arrive sooner.  Cheesy

Only 25 hrs from departing China to arriving at US Customs. Now that's fast! (If tracking is to be believed)

I better get some work done around here first so I will have time to play with them.
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« Reply #61 on: Apr 25 2022 08:26:11 »

May 15th and May 18th would be the earliest dates you could complain IF you did not receive the items.

Shipping time from overseas will vary greatly. I have waited for 2-3 months for some items to arrive, and less than a week for other items to arrive.

Usually the shipping time for something from China or other places outside the United States is comparable to the time it takes for something to be shipped from the West Coast to the East Coast of the United States. It all depends on what is happening in the world at the time your item is shipped!
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armadillo_115
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« Reply #62 on: Apr 30 2022 04:11:34 »

Both packages arrived today. Ordered April 16th. So 2 weeks shipping time.

And both DO INCLUDE 2 lnb's!  grin

Below is a photo of the contents of one box. (Less bag of bolts) The second box is identical except the lnb freq range is 3.4 - 4.2. (lnb's are white) The kit with the 3.4 - 4.2 range was significantly cheaper. Items were well individually wrapped inside padded box. * The bag of bolts was open and scattered around inside the box... could have fallen out if box had been torn in shipping. But my boxes were well taped.

Thunderstorms tomorrow and a couple of days of yard work to do first. Plus more days of rain next week, so it will probably be a few days before I get around to mounting and testing.

2 questions: The rubber gasket that goes between lnb and the feed horn... should sealant be used there?
                   Some photos online show a clear tape on bottom of lnb's. Mine doesn't have that. Is that needed?

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MikeBear
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« Reply #63 on: Apr 30 2022 06:32:31 »

Both packages arrived today. Ordered April 16th. So 2 weeks shipping time.

And both DO INCLUDE 2 lnb's!  grin

Below is a photo of the contents of one box. (Less bag of bolts) The second box is identical except the lnb freq range is 3.4 - 4.2. (lnb's are white) The kit with the 3.4 - 4.2 range was significantly cheaper. Items were well individually wrapped inside padded box. * The bag of bolts was open and scattered around inside the box... could have fallen out if box had been torn in shipping. But my boxes were well taped.

Thunderstorms tomorrow and a couple of days of yard work to do first. Plus more days of rain next week, so it will probably be a few days before I get around to mounting and testing.

2 questions: The rubber gasket that goes between lnb and the feed horn... should sealant be used there?
                   Some photos online show a clear tape on bottom of lnb's. Mine doesn't have that. Is that needed?



Don't use sealant on the lnb gasket. As for the "tape", are you sure it's tape, and not a mica sheet? IF tape, it's likely there to keep stuff from getting into the waveguide and bending the antenna during shipping. If mica, that used to be fairly normal on many lnb's years ago for whatever reason.
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elbandido
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« Reply #64 on: Apr 30 2022 06:48:20 »

My experience with the 3.4-4.2 frequency range in your picture was not positive. I suggest starting with the brown or tan lnbs first and see how they perform.
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armadillo_115
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« Reply #65 on: Apr 30 2022 08:42:07 »

TY for the tips.
OK - No sealant. I planned to test the 3.7 - 4.2 lnb's first anyway. I'll first swap out the old c2-pll on MY dish.

No sure about the 'tape'. Just saw something that looked like clear tape in an (different) lnb photo that said NOT to remove it. Since mine doesn't have that, I was concerned that something was missing. So, it's good as is. Cool.

There are no FD markings on the feed horn so I plan to measure and mark a .40 line around it.

I'm not sure my old nose cone will fit over this. So I may have to do some improvising there.
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« Reply #66 on: Apr 30 2022 09:12:50 »

These lnbs could be installed on the dish and aligned properly in about 20 minutes of time at the dish. Here are some suggestions:

First, install the lnbs onto the feed in the comfort of your favorite chair. Once the lbs are properly installed on the new feed, remove ac power to every receiver connected to the dish.

Go out to the dish and make a mark on the feed showing where the correct depth is for the lnbf feed in the scalar ring. Make a mark on the old lnbf pointing North or some other direction for alignment purposes. Disconnect lnb cabling and remove lnbf.

Turn lnbf upside down and note the probe or dipole antenna positions inside the feed. Turn the lnb upside down and roughly match the probe or dipole antenna positions to that of the lnbf. Mark the lnb where it will point North (or other direction), and the inside probes will line up the same as the lnbf.

Now transfer the depth mark from the lnbf feed to the lnb feed. Install lnb. Power on receivers and check for signal. If there is no signal, do a blindscan as it is possible the polarities are reversed.

If everything was done correctly, you should have signal on at least the strongest transponders, although the polarities may be reversed. Fine tuning can be done with the signal meter app, signal meter, fta receiver, or any other method that you use.




Usually it takes me around 10-15 minutes to swap a lnb to lnbf or lnbf to lnb, providing the parts are assembled. Tuning time is usually 5 minutes or less, but sometimes it takes longer.

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armadillo_115
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« Reply #67 on: Apr 30 2022 10:29:09 »

These lnbs could be installed on the dish and aligned properly in about 20 minutes of time at the dish. Here are some suggestions:

First, install the lnbs onto the feed in the comfort of your favorite chair. Once the lbs are properly installed on the new feed, remove ac power to every receiver connected to the dish.

Go out to the dish and make a mark on the feed showing where the correct depth is for the lnbf feed in the scalar ring. Make a mark on the old lnbf pointing North or some other direction for alignment purposes. Disconnect lnb cabling and remove lnbf.

Turn lnbf upside down and note the probe or dipole antenna positions inside the feed. Turn the lnb upside down and roughly match the probe or dipole antenna positions to that of the lnbf. Mark the lnb where it will point North (or other direction), and the inside probes will line up the same as the lnbf.

Now transfer the depth mark from the lnbf feed to the lnb feed. Install lnb. Power on receivers and check for signal. If there is no signal, do a blindscan as it is possible the polarities are reversed.

If everything was done correctly, you should have signal on at least the strongest transponders, although the polarities may be reversed. Fine tuning can be done with the signal meter app, signal meter, fta receiver, or any other method that you use.




Usually it takes me around 10-15 minutes to swap a lnb to lnbf or lnbf to lnb, providing the parts are assembled. Tuning time is usually 5 minutes or less, but sometimes it takes longer.



Good info Elbandido, thanks.

I'll probably cut a scribe stick to mark the FD line around the new feed horn. Use that quite often in woodwork.

I like to motor my western dish to 133W. Then I make a straight mark on both the old feed horn and scaler ring. (Somewhere on the bottom) Then mark the new feed horn in the same orientation and line up my marks. That way all work can be done safely at 133W. The initial lnbf install was a PITA when the dish was at the apex. Both dishes are on a hill, so at true south, it's easy to fall into the dish.

And for the wife's eastern dish, everything is done at 40W.

Getting the step ladder level and stable on the hillside is half the battle. Especially with all the darn mole burrows.  Angry
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If a frog had wings,he wouldn't bump his butt when he tried to fly.
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elbandido
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« Reply #68 on: Apr 30 2022 11:02:07 »

I do similar when changing parts. The dish will be rolled over in the 130 degree west range where the parts will be installed. But the fine tuning needs to be done at the center of the arc whenever possible in order to get the best results across the entire arc. Tuning on one end of the arc for me usually gives the strongest signal at that end, but signals usually suffer at other places on the arc.
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armadillo_115
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« Reply #69 on: May 01 2022 01:59:11 »

Since thunderstorms were not predicted until after 2pm, I decided to install the new feed horn/lnb's after all.  Now I can play with it on the rainy days.  grin

Naturally I had it 95 degrees out of phase .. so I had to correct that first. And wham... I got channels!

Now the bad news: It did NOT correct my glitching problem.

Good news: The feed horn/lnb's seem to work fine. So far I have only quickly checked transponders on 133W and 101W. Signals MAY be slightly lower than the old C2-PLL. Hard to say since I didn't keep a record of signal strength before starting. I peaked signals on 101W, couldn't reach the feed horn any closer to due south. (80 degrees) Too much danger of falling.

All channels on 101W lock in without fail. Be interesting to see if I get any rain fade later. I checked the NASA uhd channel on 127W and it was very crisp. As good or better than previously. If all my channels lock fine... I don't really care what the meter says anyway.  wink

I'll be checking other sats as I get time. It won't be too scientific, just a general feel of performance.

* The nosecone had to be forced on with pressure exerting on one of the lnb's and would not quite fasten on one side. This may cause the feed horn to cock sideways over time. I plan to put a heat gun on the nose cone and try to stretch it out a bit where needed. 3/4" bulge would prob be enough. Work for a later date.

Future plan of attack: Temporarily replace the 238 lnbf on the eastern dish with the old C2PLL. See if that cures the glitching problem. Then I will install the new dual feed horn that came with the 3.4 - 4.2 lnb's. They need testing anyway.

And if that fails... guess trying the powered multi-switch will be next.

Hey...it beats weed eating and home chores!  grin

 EDIT: After further testing, some signal levels are definitely lower than previously. Some transponders are borderline. It requires precise pointing to receive some now. Hopefully it is from forcing the nosecone on as reported above. (re-scanning some problematic transponders has helped. Obviously the new lnbs are slightly different freq than the old lnbf) More peaking to come.

Still... I'm impressed the lnb's work as well as they do considering the price. They will do for spares if nothing else.  grin
« Last Edit: May 01 2022 08:12:43 by armadillo_115 » Logged

If a frog had wings,he wouldn't bump his butt when he tried to fly.
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« Reply #70 on: May 02 2022 08:05:44 »

How is your system setup now? Is this dish connected to another dish? Do you have any other switches installed on this dish besides the multi-switch? Do you have a name or identification number for this dish?
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armadillo_115
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« Reply #71 on: May 02 2022 11:57:44 »

10' Unimesh (perforated) dish used for 40W - 101W approx. - New Titanium 238 dual lnbf. (soon to replace with old C2-PLL for testing)
10' Channel Master Mesh dish used for 91W - 133W approx. - The new dual lnb feed horn in testing phase.

Each dish has a passive 2x4 multi-switch. (Found that using ONE passive 4x8 multi-switch was even more glitchy)

PanSat 1x4 Diseqc switches on each receiver coax connects to the multi-switches. (Soon to be 4 receiver setup)

Ground blocks at house.

Then coax direct to each receiver. Diseqc positioners in standalone mode.

Just to clarify previously posted:
The only time it seems to glitch is when 2 (or 3) receivers are ALL working on the western dish and a receiver is switched to the eastern dish. Receiver on Eastern dish will not lock a channel. Often shows NO signal. Like it can't decide where to switch. It will usually correct itself after 2 or 3 minutes. This causes the receiver(s) still on the western bud to refuse to lock as well. All receiver signals blink in and out. Annoying as heck.

Simply restarting the receiver on the eastern bud will immediately correct ALL receivers. At this point: All receivers can change channels, polarity, and sats without issue.

Receiver on eastern dish can then be switched back to the western dish without issue. REPEAT: It only happens when switching a receiver from the western bud to the eastern bud when another receiver remains on the western bud.

I have swapped multi-switches and diseqc switches between the two dishes to see if it could be replicated when switching to the western bud. It never changes.

Seems a long shot: The scalar ring on the eastern dish is cut out on one side to allow a piggybacked lnb. (not on presently) As in Photo below. Could that cut scalar ring be causing the problem?



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If a frog had wings,he wouldn't bump his butt when he tried to fly.
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elbandido
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« Reply #72 on: May 02 2022 12:06:04 »

For the sake of clarity, let's call or name the two dishes Channel Master and Unimesh, so we know which ones we are referring to.

As a Test,
Break these two dishes up. Remove the diseqc switches and install barrel connectors in their place. Do this on the Channel Master dish and see if the glitching stops when all receivers are connected to it.
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armadillo_115
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« Reply #73 on: May 02 2022 02:12:40 »

Think I found why it doesn't always glitch. Maybe pertinent?

With receivers all receiving from the channel master dish:
 
If I switch a receiver over to the Unimesh.... it only glitches if the polarity is changed!
For instance: channel master Vertical ---- to ---- unimesh vertical. Change is ok
                    channel master Horizontal ---- to----  unimesh vertical. Change is bad. Glitches all receivers.

It MAY switch between dishes ok.... but goes crazy if polarity change is also needed.

I hope to mount the other new feed horn (with the 3.4 - 4.2 lnbs) onto the Unimesh dish today. Mainly just to see how well they function. Be nice if it fixes the glitching, but not expected.

IF I get that done, gonna rest. Feel bad and rain due tomorrow.

Elbandido, I'll try your latest test when the weather permits. Thanks!

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If a frog had wings,he wouldn't bump his butt when he tried to fly.
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« Reply #74 on: May 02 2022 02:55:34 »

Have you got one or two multi-switches in this dish system. Does the Channel Master and Unimesh each have a multi-switch?
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