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Author Topic: Motor Problems?  (Read 2398 times)
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Bass Player 1964
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« on: December 10, 2020, 05:42:09 PM »

I seem to be hitting a brick wall here using the same methods to track a KU dish as I have always used.
What I have always done is before mounting the motor to the pole I take the receiver and move it to 87W in my case (easiest to find) and then install the motor roughly to that coordinate using a compass. Then I mount the dish and rotate the complete assembly to find a transponder on 87 then peak the dish elevation and azimuth of the motor and dish assy to obtain the best signal. That always worked fine for me before but since the move, I can't seem to keep my KU motorized dish tracking correctly. I have tried with a STAB HH90 and a DMS  SG6000 which is an older version of their monster motor. According to the SG6000 manual, my latitude is 36 and the motor elevation 54. The STAB motor uses your latitude as the elevation.

I know I have omitted something that I usually do but for the life of me, I can't get it straight LOL.

Any suggestions appreciated!

Thanks In Advance

WT
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cyberham
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You CAN receive C-band on a 1.2m dish!


« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2020, 07:12:59 PM »

I use the same method you describe even including using 87W and USALS as my first satellite. I peak elevation and azimuth there by moving whole assembly. Then I motor to as far west as I can receive to peak azimuth slightly by moving whole assembly a very small amount. I was taught from that point to then only adjust for azimuth at that extreme western location and only adjust elevation at 87W. If you go back and forth like this then eventually the motor should be perfectly adjusted.

Did your move take you to a new latitude? My DG-2100 HH motor also requires a declination setting. This is necessary so the motor tracks correctly at different latitudes. This is a set and forget setting as long as you don't change your location latitude.

Added: Have you double checked your lat/long setting for USALS?
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VA1CQ: Motorized 1.2m dish for 82W to 123W C- and Ku-bands. Can swap between Titanium C1PLL LNBF/CS1 conical scalar for C-band and Avenger PLL321S-2 universal LNB for Ku-band. Fixed 1m dishes on 99W/97W C and 30W Ku. Edision OS Mio+, GeosatPro microHD, Openbox S9, Fortec Star Mercury II, Coolsat 7000 receivers.
elbandido
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« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2020, 07:14:16 PM »

What does "I can't seem to keep my KU motorized dish tracking correctly" mean? What ever that actually means is the key to the problem. The procedure you laid out is good basic motor installation which should provide good results.  Does the motor track correctly, but loses the arc after a period of time?  Or is the problem something else???
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Bass Player 1964
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« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2020, 10:28:52 PM »

What does "I can't seem to keep my KU motorized dish tracking correctly" mean? What ever that actually means is the key to the problem. The procedure you laid out is good basic motor installation which should provide good results.  Does the motor track correctly, but loses the arc after a period of time?  Or is the problem something else???

What that means is basically the motor didn't move or moved very slowly. That was the HH90 that was inplace. Found a couple bad caps and a bad solder joint on the voltage regulator. Should have that up and running as soon as the parts arrive. Some I had in stock.  Now the problem is lining up the SG6100 which does move fine. The problem is I am using 87 for my southernmost satellite but when I go to say 103 I have to use DISEQC and move it quite a but to the west. I have about decided to try aligning to true south and then resetting the motor and maybe it will work as it should. Just a pondering thought as I was checking out the failed STAB this evening. May or may not do the job :)

WT
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Bass Player 1964
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« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2020, 10:37:54 PM »

I use the same method you describe even including using 87W and USALS as my first satellite. I peak elevation and azimuth there by moving whole assembly. Then I motor to as far west as I can receive to peak azimuth slightly by moving whole assembly a very small amount. I was taught from that point to then only adjust for azimuth at that extreme western location and only adjust elevation at 87W. If you go back and forth like this then eventually the motor should be perfectly adjusted.

Did your move take you to a new latitude? My DG-2100 HH motor also requires a declination setting. This is necessary so the motor tracks correctly at different latitudes. This is a set and forget setting as long as you don't change your location latitude.

Added: Have you double checked your lat/long setting for USALS?

The lat and long stayed pretty much  the same.  36.36 4 and 81.32
Tried entering in decimal and it did make the motor move just a hair more when I was testing it here at the house.

The manual wasn't too clear on the declination angle on this particular motor. It's about 5.8 degrees here if I calculated it correctly.
The actual angle on the dish is supposed to calculate out to about 34.23 degrees  (40- declination angle )
Manual does indicate that the angle of the motor should be 54 and when I set my elevation on the motor to 36 degrees the other scale shows 54. Kinda silly way to describe this,but that's what the manual wants LOL

Should be a simple setup but here in the mountains things aint what they seem they are,to borrow a phrase from that Cajun Justice show that used to be on a few years back.   Thanks for the suggestions!
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elbandido
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« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2020, 12:41:26 AM »

The motor is supposed to have the dish at the highest point when at the due south satellite. For me, the due south satellite is the center satellite. For most locations, there may be a small plateau for a few degrees either side center where the dish doesn't drop much, but then the motor drops by a noticeable amount as the dish moves away from center.

Knowing how the motor moves the dish, we can sort of figure out what is happening. IF center is 87w, and the motor has to be moved west to get the 103w satellite, then the dish is too high because moving the dish west allows the dish to drop lower.

The difference between 87 and 103 is only 16 degrees, which shows the dish is not tracking very far until it falls out of the arc. The two things to look at are dish adjustment and declination. If possible physically turn the dish to the east a bit. (If the dish has a bolt through it to hold it on the motor, you will not be able to do this.)  Or slightly move the entire motor to the east by a very small amount.

If moving the dish or dish motor east by a small amount does not help, then drop the declination by a small amount, and adjust dish elevation to compensate for this change. Every motor that  I have ever owned had the declination set to equal the latitude or degrees north. I set motor declination using a small hydraulic jack on a stand which is used to support the motor, and make precise adjustments for declination.

It would be even better if some satellites in the other direction could be found. Then you could compare the signals of two satellites, one east and one west. These two comparison satellites ideally would be the same distance from center. If one side had a good signal, and the other side had a bad signal, then you would know the dish was not centered in the arc. Having just one side of the arc to adjust is a handicap.

Changing the degrees in the receiver, or entering a fake location that you are not actually at to make the dish track is a trick that a lot of people use. But almost 100 percent of the time, this trick will improve the signal on one side of the arc while deceasing the signal on the other side of the arc. This means absolutely nothing if you can receive on just one side of the arc or can only receive satellites in just one direction.   
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Bass Player 1964
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« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2020, 03:17:25 AM »

Declination angle adjustment is one thing the manual doesn't get too involved in for some reason. It's 5.8 degrees for me but it specs to 40 degrees minus the declination and the settings are done using the elevation scale on the dish. No further mention of declination is made.

I have made some calculations I will try tomorrow but previously I have been able to use 87W and peak it and it tracks fine from there but not any longer it seems. If I calculated correctly if I start at 0 on the motor for the move to 87 it should move about 5.4 degrees and at the far western end at 125 should indicate a move of 43.46 degrees.  My STAB HH90 was just barely working and taking forever to move and sometimes changing direction midstream, this SG6000 is a nice heavy motor and I just serviced it with a backlash adjustment and new lube for the gears. Testing at the STB shows a nice smooth move to any location. You mentioned using fake coordinates in the USALS setup, I have tried that a time or two but usually it is a band-aid for better alignment. I also tested the 6000 on 2 different receivers with matching travels. I just need to figure out what I am missing or what I'm short-cutting during setup LOL!

Thanks for the suggestions!

WT
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logically
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« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2020, 08:54:41 AM »

Try reading at this web page:

Code:
http://www.repentnow.com/FTAMOTORINSTALL.htm
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Bass Player 1964
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« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2020, 10:31:34 AM »

Try reading at this web page:

Code:
http://www.repentnow.com/FTAMOTORINSTALL.htm

Thanks for the web page link!  That page has some good information. The alternate method is basically what I use and have used. I use the receiver to move to 87W and then peak the system by moving the assembly and dish elevation. Maybe the scales on my motor are really incorrect. When the motor moves for example 103 W from 87W after alignment it seems to fall significantly short of its mark and I have to switch to DISEQC and move the dish on westward quite a bit before I can lock COZI on 103. I will have to look at the motor scale to see exactly how far it has actually moved to lock 103.
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